The microbes or fungus that causes rust are always in the environment, they don’t pop out of nowhere like some sort of plant boogie man to attack leaves. What causes it to develop are the right environmental conditions, i.e. excess moisture causing damaged areas on leaves along with a lack of nutrients in some cases. In fact, it can be common to get rust on fig leaves as we get into fall and senescence starts happening, and this is perfectly fine and normal.
The rust comes along to breakdown the damaged or dying areas of the leaf. So if you have a leaf with rust rubbing up against a healthy leaf, the healthy leaf will not get rust because it does not have that damaged tissue rust wants to consume. (The caveat being that if excess moisture is causing rust on one tree it likely is an issue for other trees in the same environment. Increasing things like calcium and silica, and decreasing nitrate, can help to strengthen the tissues if getting rust at other times of the year.)
In this case with leaf litter, rust microbes along with other microbes will break down the leaves into nutritious matter for the soil. They are only interested in consuming the dying leaves, they will not harm healthy leaves. There is nothing detrimental to using leaf litter from leaves with rust because it is simply part of the natural process for nature to recycle the leaf. Removing leaf litter with rust does not remove those microbes from the environment. The next time there is a leaf with moisture damage, it will appear again. Once the leaf has broken down, its food source has gone.
If it is a concern though, using things like EM-1 or LABS can help change the microbial balance in a situation with persistent rust. You can spray it on the leaf litter a few times to help fascilitate breakdown and to affect the types of microbes present. A lengthy answer for something relatively simple, but I hope it helps just the same!
At the risk of asking too many questions, how does excess moisture (such as high heat and humidity) cause fig leaves to be damaged such that the rust organism can gain a foothold? I see people saying fig leaves "hate being wet", but I don't know how one avoids that if they are outside. I have much to learn (fighopper).
There are never too many questions when learning, ask away! 😁
So this can happen in a couple of ways: 1) From overwatering, it can weaken the leaf tissue and the cellular structure from the inside out making it more permeable, and 2) water sitting on top of a leaf and not drying off can either freeze-ish in colder weather (think night time in early spring or fall) or it can get too hot and remain on the leaf if the air saturation is too full from high humidity in summer. Both can cause cellular damage in the areas where the water is remaining on the leaf. Another example is to think of your skin after swimming a long time or taking a long, hot bath— your skin becomes more tender and fragile because of the ongoing water exposure. That is what is happening to the leaf with water sitting on it and not drying off quickly.
Giving nutrients that strengthen cellular tissues can help to prevent this. When the tissues are strong, they are able to withstand more. This is more important if you have potted trees since they do not have a regular mineral source from being in soil. If you have in ground trees, it’s a case of providing the biology so that the microbes can make the soil minerals available to plants. Calcium is very important for figs and will help a lot with this. Silica can also help. Some fertilizers actually weaken tissues, such as the nitrate form of nitrogen. Nitrate increases water in the tissues and stretches them making cellular walls very thin and permeable. So if you’re in a humid climate, limiting nitrate can be very helpful.
In some cases, you just can’t avoid rust. Like you said, they’re outside and they’re going to get wet. If you have tender, new leaves they will always be more prone to it; the same is true with aging leaves. If you live in a humid climate, it can be an ongoing thing because fig trees are Mediterranean plants and technically adapted to growing in drier climates. But as the tree gets older and more established, it should get better at resisting it. It’s something to not stress over, but recognize it’s just going to happen because of the environment and do what you can to support the plant. Giving it biologicals through ferments, LABS (or EM-1 or even natural kefir), mycorrhizal fungi, and/or worm castings can also help to improve the canopy biome, especially if foliar sprayed.
You know, I was going to ask about natural kefir because I have a culture that I keep propagating to keep it healthy, but how would I use that with either potted or in-ground figs? Would it provide some calcium availability as well as the lactobacillus organisms? And I'm taking a shot at FPJ, in a small quantity, for later use.
Kefir can be excellent for plants. (In fact, it has been used successfully by some to treat gummosis or canker in other trees.) It is best used as a foliar spray, though you can also soil drench with it from time to time. You use it exactly the same as LABS (lactic acid bacterial serum, essentially the whey from live milk or other milk ferments.) You dilute it with non-chlorinated water, 1 oz per gallon, for foliar or soil.
I typically do a microbial spray once a month, though you can do it more often if you are having an issue. Like for gummosis, they’ll spray it three days in a row and then wait a couple of weeks to see if it resolves with that. With soil drenches, you want to allow time between them to make sure that the soil isn’t getting mucky, especially since kefir has a certain amount of fat. Once a month is good to aim for, you can maybe get away with once a week if wanted, but watch how the plants respond to it.
Kefir will provide a certain amount of calcium and phosphorous, but it should not be your only source of calcium for figs. It definitely does have a good nutrient benefit though.
This is really nice to hear because I keep my kefir grain colony fairly small because it will eat me out of house and home otherwise. Now I think I can afford to let it grow a bit since I have a good use for it. Have you ever heard of anyone using the actual grains in a soil mix or soil less mix? They would eventually decompose I'm sure, but I wonder what benefit there might be to the root system, if any.
Yes, absolutely— the grains are great added to the soil or to compost. They are fantastic in vegetable gardens. You would want to use less in a soilless mix or in pots, but they can be added periodically. (If you have animals, such as chickens or dogs, they enjoy them too from time to time. Just be careful not to give too much at once which could upset tummies.)
Anything that increases microbial content in the soil is good because the microbes and plants have a very symbiotic relationship. In fact, plants use root exudates to attract and feed microbes so they can “eat” the microbes and the minerals on them. The only possible caution is that for trees we really want fungal dominance and so we don’t want to upset the balance too much by overapplying bacteria. Excess bacteria could eat the sugars that fungus needs. I don’t see that being a problem here though, especially for anything in-ground. If it causes issue, it’s more likely to in potted trees, but I think you would really have to go overboard with it for that to happen.
I plan to use vapor-permeable wrap materials to protect my two new (3/4-1-inch diameter trunks as shipped) Chicago Hardy in-ground trees. Would it be helpful to put a breathable collar around the lower portion of the trunk to keep chewing pests away from the trunk inside the fencing filled with leaves before the final materials wrap? I shouldn't think they would be bothered, but I do have moles. The mice have a whole shed to occupy (which they do), so I can't imagine they would like the colder area where the figs are planted, but who knows the minds of mice?
Rodents, like mice or voles, can definitely be an issue under wrapped & insulated trees because it provides shelter, a warmer area, and food for them all in one spot. You don’t want to have anything made of plastic in direct contact with your trees, even if it says it is breathable because it still can trap in a lot of moisture against the trunk leading to mold. You’ll want an air gap between the leaves and the trunk as well.
What can help with burrowing and chewing rodents is to wrap the trunks with hardware cloth up to a certain height, not tightly, but close enough that any critters can’t get in between them, and then putting hardware cloth directly on the ground around the tree starting from the base out to about 2-3 ft. Then top the hardware cloth with several inches of gravel or shells. I have heard that chicken oyster shell grit can also be used if you don’t want gravel or larger shell pieces, and it has an added benefit of being a calcium source. This should help to prevent rodents from burrowing in the ground to get to the tree. I don’t know how you feel about poison, but some do also put vole/rodent poison around the tree as another measure.
Have you heard whether the calcium/shells attract rodents particularly? I think of antler sheds in the woods that mice/chipmunks/squirrels chew on during the winter, so maybe stone would be less attractive....
I’ve not heard that, the shells are unpleasant for them to dig through much like gravel. If they do like to chew on them, well better that than on your tree! But I’ve not seen any indications myself of them chewing on some of the shells I have outside. I would think the antlers are different from the shells in composition and protein? For example, my dogs will chew on antlers if I give them to them (like a bone or hoof) but will not ever chew on a shell. That said, I am certainly no rodent expert! And winter can bring out some unusual behaviors when critters are trying to survive. I do think it’s best to follow your gut and if there’s a concern then stick with the stone. It’s a solid choice, and whatever accomplishes the goal is what is important. Hope it all goes well, would love to hear you’re eating figs next season!
Oh excellent points about the antler chews. I completely forgot about that. I do have pea stone, but I really do like the idea of the oyster shells or clam shells. I'll keep you posted. I haven't had a lot of luck with my potted figs this year, primarily because I didn't know what I was doing during the fruiting stage, so I might get two from those, but I'm looking forward to seeing some success with the Chicago Hardy. Thank you again for all of your suggestions and advice! I have no doubt there will be more questions ☺️.
So I recently read somewhere not to use leaf litter from trees that have rust. This article suggests otherwise. What's the real scoop?
The microbes or fungus that causes rust are always in the environment, they don’t pop out of nowhere like some sort of plant boogie man to attack leaves. What causes it to develop are the right environmental conditions, i.e. excess moisture causing damaged areas on leaves along with a lack of nutrients in some cases. In fact, it can be common to get rust on fig leaves as we get into fall and senescence starts happening, and this is perfectly fine and normal.
The rust comes along to breakdown the damaged or dying areas of the leaf. So if you have a leaf with rust rubbing up against a healthy leaf, the healthy leaf will not get rust because it does not have that damaged tissue rust wants to consume. (The caveat being that if excess moisture is causing rust on one tree it likely is an issue for other trees in the same environment. Increasing things like calcium and silica, and decreasing nitrate, can help to strengthen the tissues if getting rust at other times of the year.)
In this case with leaf litter, rust microbes along with other microbes will break down the leaves into nutritious matter for the soil. They are only interested in consuming the dying leaves, they will not harm healthy leaves. There is nothing detrimental to using leaf litter from leaves with rust because it is simply part of the natural process for nature to recycle the leaf. Removing leaf litter with rust does not remove those microbes from the environment. The next time there is a leaf with moisture damage, it will appear again. Once the leaf has broken down, its food source has gone.
If it is a concern though, using things like EM-1 or LABS can help change the microbial balance in a situation with persistent rust. You can spray it on the leaf litter a few times to help fascilitate breakdown and to affect the types of microbes present. A lengthy answer for something relatively simple, but I hope it helps just the same!
Thank you!! This makes things much clearer!
At the risk of asking too many questions, how does excess moisture (such as high heat and humidity) cause fig leaves to be damaged such that the rust organism can gain a foothold? I see people saying fig leaves "hate being wet", but I don't know how one avoids that if they are outside. I have much to learn (fighopper).
There are never too many questions when learning, ask away! 😁
So this can happen in a couple of ways: 1) From overwatering, it can weaken the leaf tissue and the cellular structure from the inside out making it more permeable, and 2) water sitting on top of a leaf and not drying off can either freeze-ish in colder weather (think night time in early spring or fall) or it can get too hot and remain on the leaf if the air saturation is too full from high humidity in summer. Both can cause cellular damage in the areas where the water is remaining on the leaf. Another example is to think of your skin after swimming a long time or taking a long, hot bath— your skin becomes more tender and fragile because of the ongoing water exposure. That is what is happening to the leaf with water sitting on it and not drying off quickly.
Giving nutrients that strengthen cellular tissues can help to prevent this. When the tissues are strong, they are able to withstand more. This is more important if you have potted trees since they do not have a regular mineral source from being in soil. If you have in ground trees, it’s a case of providing the biology so that the microbes can make the soil minerals available to plants. Calcium is very important for figs and will help a lot with this. Silica can also help. Some fertilizers actually weaken tissues, such as the nitrate form of nitrogen. Nitrate increases water in the tissues and stretches them making cellular walls very thin and permeable. So if you’re in a humid climate, limiting nitrate can be very helpful.
In some cases, you just can’t avoid rust. Like you said, they’re outside and they’re going to get wet. If you have tender, new leaves they will always be more prone to it; the same is true with aging leaves. If you live in a humid climate, it can be an ongoing thing because fig trees are Mediterranean plants and technically adapted to growing in drier climates. But as the tree gets older and more established, it should get better at resisting it. It’s something to not stress over, but recognize it’s just going to happen because of the environment and do what you can to support the plant. Giving it biologicals through ferments, LABS (or EM-1 or even natural kefir), mycorrhizal fungi, and/or worm castings can also help to improve the canopy biome, especially if foliar sprayed.
You know, I was going to ask about natural kefir because I have a culture that I keep propagating to keep it healthy, but how would I use that with either potted or in-ground figs? Would it provide some calcium availability as well as the lactobacillus organisms? And I'm taking a shot at FPJ, in a small quantity, for later use.
Kefir can be excellent for plants. (In fact, it has been used successfully by some to treat gummosis or canker in other trees.) It is best used as a foliar spray, though you can also soil drench with it from time to time. You use it exactly the same as LABS (lactic acid bacterial serum, essentially the whey from live milk or other milk ferments.) You dilute it with non-chlorinated water, 1 oz per gallon, for foliar or soil.
I typically do a microbial spray once a month, though you can do it more often if you are having an issue. Like for gummosis, they’ll spray it three days in a row and then wait a couple of weeks to see if it resolves with that. With soil drenches, you want to allow time between them to make sure that the soil isn’t getting mucky, especially since kefir has a certain amount of fat. Once a month is good to aim for, you can maybe get away with once a week if wanted, but watch how the plants respond to it.
Kefir will provide a certain amount of calcium and phosphorous, but it should not be your only source of calcium for figs. It definitely does have a good nutrient benefit though.
This is really nice to hear because I keep my kefir grain colony fairly small because it will eat me out of house and home otherwise. Now I think I can afford to let it grow a bit since I have a good use for it. Have you ever heard of anyone using the actual grains in a soil mix or soil less mix? They would eventually decompose I'm sure, but I wonder what benefit there might be to the root system, if any.
Yes, absolutely— the grains are great added to the soil or to compost. They are fantastic in vegetable gardens. You would want to use less in a soilless mix or in pots, but they can be added periodically. (If you have animals, such as chickens or dogs, they enjoy them too from time to time. Just be careful not to give too much at once which could upset tummies.)
Anything that increases microbial content in the soil is good because the microbes and plants have a very symbiotic relationship. In fact, plants use root exudates to attract and feed microbes so they can “eat” the microbes and the minerals on them. The only possible caution is that for trees we really want fungal dominance and so we don’t want to upset the balance too much by overapplying bacteria. Excess bacteria could eat the sugars that fungus needs. I don’t see that being a problem here though, especially for anything in-ground. If it causes issue, it’s more likely to in potted trees, but I think you would really have to go overboard with it for that to happen.
Would whey be sufficient? I ferment kefir with skim milk, which has a higher calcium content, and I read where whey is particularly good.
Yes, absolutely! Whey from kefir is essentially like LABS, which is often used by KNF or JADAM growers.
You rock!
Glad to help!
Sort of related fall wrap question :-)
I plan to use vapor-permeable wrap materials to protect my two new (3/4-1-inch diameter trunks as shipped) Chicago Hardy in-ground trees. Would it be helpful to put a breathable collar around the lower portion of the trunk to keep chewing pests away from the trunk inside the fencing filled with leaves before the final materials wrap? I shouldn't think they would be bothered, but I do have moles. The mice have a whole shed to occupy (which they do), so I can't imagine they would like the colder area where the figs are planted, but who knows the minds of mice?
I really enjoy your articles!!
Thanks, I’m glad you’re enjoying them!
Rodents, like mice or voles, can definitely be an issue under wrapped & insulated trees because it provides shelter, a warmer area, and food for them all in one spot. You don’t want to have anything made of plastic in direct contact with your trees, even if it says it is breathable because it still can trap in a lot of moisture against the trunk leading to mold. You’ll want an air gap between the leaves and the trunk as well.
What can help with burrowing and chewing rodents is to wrap the trunks with hardware cloth up to a certain height, not tightly, but close enough that any critters can’t get in between them, and then putting hardware cloth directly on the ground around the tree starting from the base out to about 2-3 ft. Then top the hardware cloth with several inches of gravel or shells. I have heard that chicken oyster shell grit can also be used if you don’t want gravel or larger shell pieces, and it has an added benefit of being a calcium source. This should help to prevent rodents from burrowing in the ground to get to the tree. I don’t know how you feel about poison, but some do also put vole/rodent poison around the tree as another measure.
Have you heard whether the calcium/shells attract rodents particularly? I think of antler sheds in the woods that mice/chipmunks/squirrels chew on during the winter, so maybe stone would be less attractive....
I’ve not heard that, the shells are unpleasant for them to dig through much like gravel. If they do like to chew on them, well better that than on your tree! But I’ve not seen any indications myself of them chewing on some of the shells I have outside. I would think the antlers are different from the shells in composition and protein? For example, my dogs will chew on antlers if I give them to them (like a bone or hoof) but will not ever chew on a shell. That said, I am certainly no rodent expert! And winter can bring out some unusual behaviors when critters are trying to survive. I do think it’s best to follow your gut and if there’s a concern then stick with the stone. It’s a solid choice, and whatever accomplishes the goal is what is important. Hope it all goes well, would love to hear you’re eating figs next season!
Oh excellent points about the antler chews. I completely forgot about that. I do have pea stone, but I really do like the idea of the oyster shells or clam shells. I'll keep you posted. I haven't had a lot of luck with my potted figs this year, primarily because I didn't know what I was doing during the fruiting stage, so I might get two from those, but I'm looking forward to seeing some success with the Chicago Hardy. Thank you again for all of your suggestions and advice! I have no doubt there will be more questions ☺️.